Outdoors-411.com

[Todd]

I will move this to the entertainment section later, but I was wondering if anyone else had seen the movie.

I watched it last night and I thought it was pretty good. I was affraid it was going to be some wacko tree hugger type thing but was glad to see it took a pretty realistic view of Tim Treadwell and what he was doing.

For those that don't recognize the name, (click the link above for more details) Tim Treadwell is the guy that lived with Grizzly bears ever year for the last 12 and had several tv shows showing him often within arms reach of wild Alaskan grizzlies. That is until he and his girlfriend were killed and eaten by a grizzly(ies) on October 5th (or 6th) 2003.

If you haven't seen it, it's worth watching. IMO
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"Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody." - Calvin Coolidge

"I'm the guy that originally wrote the assault weapons ban" Joe Biden

[1stimestar]

Due to laziness I'll just copy and paste what I wrote about this on another site recently.

Timothy Treadwell was an idiot who unfortunatly also got his girlfriend et. For YEARS, the park services, bear experts, etc. told him to stop what he was doing. He was fined, jailed, thrown out of national parks to no avail. His behavior not only endangered himself but also the bears and any other humans those bears had future contact with. The movie doesn't really show/explain all that. He was a lawbreaking, doped up, idiot in real life. A bane to Alaskans.
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Why do I live in Alaska? Because I can.

http://cloud9doula.wordpress.com/

Does this 12 gauge make my butt look big?

[Todd]

Timothy Treadwell was an idiot who unfortunatly also got his girlfriend et.

I will have to disagree with that. Amie was a 37 year old woman intelligent enough to make her own dessions. She was obviously uncomfortable being that close to the bears but made the choice to return at least two summers (this may have been her 3rd). You know what mom used to say about frineds that jump off of bridges.


For YEARS, the park services, bear experts, etc. told him to stop what he was doing. He was fined, jailed, thrown out of national parks to no avail.

I knew he was battling with the park service but was unaware of any jail time or being thrown out of the park. Do you have any more information on this?

His behavior not only endangered himself but also the bears and any other humans those bears had future contact with.

I agree with that (mostly). We all endanger ourselves on a daily basis whether by driving to the store (one of the most dangerous activites in the world), climbing a rock face, paddling a whitewater river, jumong out of an airplane, or even having unprotected sex. They are all deadly. The difference between the dead people and the live ones often comes down to how far we each push our our abilities, how well we know our own personal limits, and a lot of times just plain ol' luck, either good or bad.

The worst part of the whole situation IMO is the effects his actions have on other people. Either people who would like to mimick his actions or as you said other people that will come in contact with those bears.

The movie doesn't really show/explain all that.

It didn't cover that in great detail, but both the helicopter pilot and the museum curator both at least touched on that subject, as well as the narrator in the closing statements.

He was a lawbreaking, doped up, idiot in real life. A bane to Alaskans.

Not sure what laws he broke outside of camping in the same spot for more than 7 days and getting closer than 100 yards to the bears. Both laws that are regularly broken by both Alaskans and visitors.

He could have been on drugs, but claimed he no longer was after a near fatal overdose earlier in life. He also admitted to being a heavy drinker earlier in life. From the video footage I saw I didn't see anything to lead me to believe he was still using. But, I wasn't there and have only seen maybe 5 hours of his video footage.

IMO he was mentally disturbed, maybe as a result of his earlier drug use, I don't know, but he definitely had some mental issues. Not just because he approached the bears, but based on his general daminear (sp) and actions both around the bears and while talking to himself.
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"Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody." - Calvin Coolidge

"I'm the guy that originally wrote the assault weapons ban" Joe Biden

[~jeff~]

I don't watch TV so I have never seen the guy in action.
I've heard enough about him from others so my knowledge is all second hand.

From what I've heard I classified him with one legged guy that wanted to teach the world sharks don't bite if your nice to them.

As well with that kid Chris McCandless that some years back basically killed himself 25 miles outside of Fairbanks in some vain attempt to pretend he was Grizzly Adams.

He starved after plugging his system off with a seed of some sorts while living in a school bus.
He kept endless notes of the daily events as he died.
They wrote at least one book that I know of about (Into The Wild) him and there could have been a movie, but I'd never know.

All he did was prove he was incapable of the task's involved in a substance life style.
He's was said to have been Mr. Outdoors but I doubt it.
People talk about him as if he were some sorta hero and I see him more as a suicidal kook which is about what I have figured the "Bear Dude" to be.

You ever think of this?

If the Bear Dude had a history of drug addiction as well as alcohol addiction, that pretty much steers one to believe he could have had a problem with compulsive behavior, possibly his work with the bears also reflected the same trait in a different light.
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~Jeff~
They remind me of blind, enraged oxen being taunted and prodded by the right wing media, frothing and wanting to strike someone, but can't see who's really tormenting them.

[Keoeeit]

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[Todd]

I don't watch TV so I have never seen the guy in action.

I have seen more movies when I got sick between Mid November and the end of our kids school break which ended this week than I have seen in the last two years combined. I think my head is going to explode or my brain ooz out my ears!

The first time I ever saw or even heard of the guy was in August 99, the day we got back in San Diego from our trip to Alaska. His show was on something like the discovery Channel at my friends house. The show really was pretty interesting, and the footage of the grizzlies ws the best I had ever seen, even with his goofy California attitude.

As well with that kid Chris McCandless that some years back basically killed himself 25 miles outside of Fairbanks in some vain attempt to pretend he was Grizzly Adams.

He starved after plugging his system off with a seed of some sorts while living in a school bus. He kept endless notes of the daily events as he died. They wrote at least one book that I know of about (Into The Wild) him and there could have been a movie, but I'd never know.

Ahh... Chris McCandless. Have you read the book into the wild? Very well written and very interesting. If you are interested I would gladly send you the book, it's worth reading.

When we were in Alaska we hiked back into the area where he died. We didn't make it to the bus because the river was to high to cross and we didn't have time to look for the basket that I believe you can cross on.

One theory is that he actually unintentionally poisioned himself with the seeds he was eating. Of course he wouldn't have needed to eat those seeds if he had only brought a map along so he could have found a different way across the river.

If the Bear Dude had a history of drug addiction as well as alcohol addiction, that pretty much steers one to believe he could have had a problem with compulsive behavior, possibly his work with the bears also reflected the same trait in a different light.

Yes, that is a very good possibility. Like Keoeeit said "People get hooked on naturally occurring body & mind produced drugs (endorphins, adrenaline, etc.) just as much as any other. After all, look at those cavers, kayakers, rock-climbers, hunters, etc. etc. "

I believe that could easily apply in this case.
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"Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody." - Calvin Coolidge

"I'm the guy that originally wrote the assault weapons ban" Joe Biden

[Todd]

Great post Keoeeit!

Were his actions any more dangerous to the bear or other humans than the hundreds of thousands that drive through Yellowstone and throw a marshmallow to that cute bear? Nope.

Your certainly right about that. In fact I think his actions were even less detrimental than the idiots with cameras I see running through the woods chasing bears without food. Even though he was dangerously close to the bears he never seemed to interfere with the bears natural actions or course of travel.

The chances of those same bears encountering humans again are nil to none over their life-times.

Not entirely true. There were "tour" boats that brought people into the area, but most people never left the 'safety' of their boat. In all of his footage, about 100 hours, he only once filmed people that were on land in the area where the bears were. But it was reported that other people had run into him as well in the back country. The strange part was Treadwell would 'huff' like a startled bear on the few occasions when he did see people, and generally avoided them.

He just wasn't following the self-appointed control-freak park personnel's rules, so they have to vilify him. Just as any control-freak will do to any people that disobey what they want others to do.

That is why I am wondering what he was jailed/fined for. If it was just the 7 day camp rule and the 100 yard rule, who really cares? They didn't mention any jail time or fines on the video, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Right now we have a very strange situation here in Tennessee. This year it was made illegal to bring a cervid (deer, elk, moose) carcass into the state if it was harvested in a state or province that has detected CWD. You can bring in boneless meat, capes and cleaned skulls, that's it. What has me ticked off is I can't bring in an elk stake with a bone, BUT the state is planning on bringing in live elk from Alberta, a province that has detected CWD, and release them into the wild. Even though live animals can NOT be tested for CWD.

I guess I am just not smart enough to understand the governments plan.
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"Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody." - Calvin Coolidge

"I'm the guy that originally wrote the assault weapons ban" Joe Biden

[~jeff~]

Thanks for the offer on the book Todd. I have it somewhere if i've not loaned it away myself over the years.
I did read it about the time of it's release I think.

Would that be where I got the info on the build up of the non-digestible seeds?

I pretty much formed my opinion after reading it.
Unless I am confuzzed yet again, it was about the time I was living remote along the Bering Sea coast.

Reaching that far back just a few things come to mind that really stuck out in the tale.
One was the best I recall that he was 25 miles outta Fairbanks.
I'd have made the trip or died tryin'

i know there was the river that turned him back at least once, and those rivers there are rather wicked in places. I also recall hearing that the river was braided up in some places where a guy could cross if he had to, but that would have required knowing where you were.

I also remember that he pretty much wasted a moose due to not know what to do with it in his situation so that really was a blow to any know how he supposable had.

I think that book was written by one of his closer friends? So I am sure between their friendship and his grief for Chris he may have left out what he didn't want to share about him. Just a guess.

Do you know how they got the bus to the location it was in to start with?
I know it had been there for some time.
But they had to get it there some how?
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~Jeff~
They remind me of blind, enraged oxen being taunted and prodded by the right wing media, frothing and wanting to strike someone, but can't see who's really tormenting them.

[Keoeeit]

.....

[Todd]

Would that be where I got the info on the build up of the non-digestible seeds?

Yep. I don't remember them being undigetable, but poisonous. I am probably wrong though.

One was the best I recall that he was 25 miles outta Fairbanks.
I'd have made the trip or died tryin'

Not sure how far Denali is from Fairbanks, but the location of his death was just outside of the park.

I also recall hearing that the river was braided up in some places where a guy could cross if he had to, but that would have required knowing where you were.

As I recall there was a cable with a cart you could hand pull yourself over the river, but again, it's been years since I read the book.

I also remember that he pretty much wasted a moose due to not know what to do with it in his situation so that really was a blow to any know how he supposable had.

OK, I'm reading it again. I don't remember the moose, but don't doubt it. It been since 97 when I read the book.

I think that book was written by one of his closer friends? So I am sure between their friendship and his grief for Chris he may have left out what he didn't want to share about him. Just a guess.

The book was written by Jon Krakauer a pretty famous and well respected outdoor author. I am 99.9% sure he didn't know McCandless.

Do you know how they got the bus to the location it was in to start with?
I know it had been there for some time. But they had to get it there some how?

I am sure they drove it there years earlier, it was used as a hunting camp over the years. When we were there we parked at the end of a road (stampede road?) and hiked quite a ways down a 4x4 road/trail until it ended at a river there was no way I was going to wade across. It was pretty swift and rough when we were there.

I am going to read the book again it's not very long.
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"Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody." - Calvin Coolidge

"I'm the guy that originally wrote the assault weapons ban" Joe Biden

[Todd]

[Keoeeit]

.....

[Todd]

About the bus - The road, the Stampede Trail was built in 1961 so ore could be haled out year round. three buses were brought into the area to serve as backcountry shelters for the workers as the road was going in. They were skidded in behind a D-9 caterpillar. Two of the buses were later removed and the third left about half way out the trail for a back country shelter for trappers and hunters.



Keoeeit are you interested in reading the book?
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"Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody." - Calvin Coolidge

"I'm the guy that originally wrote the assault weapons ban" Joe Biden

[Keoeeit]

.....

[Todd]

The author is "Jon Krakauer" the name of the book is "Into The Wild"

You can read the first chapter at the following link

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0385486804/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-3709322-3420845#reader-link

It's only about 200 pages long. I started reading it last night, I should be done by tomorrow. If you can't find an e-version let me know and I will mail it to you.
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"Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody." - Calvin Coolidge

"I'm the guy that originally wrote the assault weapons ban" Joe Biden

[~jeff~]

My memory banks may be pulling a mix of data
from reading the book with a bit of hearsay tossed in
picked up from idle chatter over the years.
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~Jeff~
They remind me of blind, enraged oxen being taunted and prodded by the right wing media, frothing and wanting to strike someone, but can't see who's really tormenting them.

[Keoeeit]

.....

[Todd]

I finished reading the book again. WOW!

Something about the story is just very mesmerizing to me. I don't know what it is. It may just the writing. Krakauer is a fantastic story teller and this book is no exception. It flows as fast and free as the River that separated McCandless from the rest of the world, from going on with his life.

To me the book isn't just about Chris McCandless. It's about a lot of kids who have taken chances. Unnecessary chances when viewed from outside, so they can live their life the way they want. It's about relationships with our parents, mostly father/son. It's about how easy it is to criticize other peoples seemingly reckless adventures, when most of us have similar actions from our past that could have easily lead to our demise.

In short, it's a fantastic read.
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"Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody." - Calvin Coolidge

"I'm the guy that originally wrote the assault weapons ban" Joe Biden

[Todd]

Jeff you were right, he did kill a moose on June 9th. He didn't have any trouble butchering it, but he did have trouble preserving the meat. He was trying to smoke it a little at a time and by the 14th he had maggots on some of the meat. I have no idea how much of the meat he did consume, but he did mention eating some of the entrals also.

The 25 miles you mentioned is the distance to Healy.

As I remembered there was a cable car at a USGS guaging station just about 1/2 mile from the river crossing. If he would have had a map he may have checked out the station and found the crossing.

You were also right about the river being braided upstream. However, it would have probably been at least chest deep and still pretty swift. McCandless was a poor swimmer and was afraid of the water.
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"Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody." - Calvin Coolidge

"I'm the guy that originally wrote the assault weapons ban" Joe Biden

[Keoeeit]

.....